"A language of Armenia" or "A language of Lebanon"?
Print"A language of Armenia" or "A language of Lebanon"?
dusseaux.antoine_289191, Sun, 2022-03-13 01:57
Regarding:
LocationState
Closed
ISO 639-3:
hywAccording to Wikipedia: "Western Armenian is spoken by Armenians of most of the Middle East except for Iran, and Rostov-on-Don in Russia." and "The only Western Armenian dialect still spoken in Western Armenia is the Homshetsi dialect,": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Armenian
If this is true then the number of speakers in Armenia should be set to ~150k and the language should be a "language of Lebanon" with 336,000 speakers
Editorial Action
We will shift the hub country for Western Armenian [hyw] from Armenia to Turkey, for inclusion in the next edition of the Ethnologue.
Comments
On the other hand that source says: https://armenianweekly.com/2019/01/02/the-myth-of-the-western-armenian/
"Western Armenian dialects survive to this day in villages and towns in Armenia. Along with dialects are the cultural songs, dances and real Western Armenian cuisine. Travel along the western provinces in Armenia, and you will see Western Armenia survived by those who during the Genocide skipped over the border toward the Russian Empire. Gyumri is more Western Armenian than Bourj Hammoud."
We need better data on that
Dear Antoine,
Thank you for this information on Western Armenian [hyw].
Western Armenian is "A language of Armenia" since Armenia is the country of origin, even though Lebanon may have more speakers.
We will add a population of 150,000 for Western Armenian in Armenia, based on the number of Homshetsi speakers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homshetsi_dialect).
Best regards,
Chuck Fennig
Managing Editor, Ethnologue
Dear Chuck,
Is Armenia (in its current border?) really the "country of origin" of Western Armenian?
According to Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Armenian ): "It [Western Armenian] is based mainly on the Istanbul Armenian dialect contrary to Eastern Armenian which is mainly based on the Yerevan Armenian dialect."
Western Armenian can also be defined as the language of "Western Armenia" (also known as "Turkish Armenia" or "Ottoman Armenia"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Armenia
So I would say that Western Armenian is "A language of Turkey".
What do you think?
Antoine,
I went back and read the ISO 639-3 change request that officially established Western Armenian [hyw] (https://iso639-3.sil.org/sites/iso639-3/files/change_requests/2017/2017-...) and saw that the submitters described the language as "polycentric" and, for the countries where used, said "The Armenian diaspora".
So, I think I would be ready to list Turkey as the hub country for Western Armenian, given that that is the country where nearly all who spoke Western Armenian lived before the genocide and subsequent post-1915 diaspora. Western Armenia was basically located in what is today eastern Turkey.
I agree. The proposal also doesn't mention "Armenia" or Yerevan as places where the language is spoken. And when it comes to teaching (which represents the speakers of tomorrow), as they explained: "There are over 80 Armenian day schools (primary and/or secondary) in the diaspora teaching western Armenian, with their textbooks, teachers, schools boards, etc. Most are in Lebanon, Syria, and Istanbul."
So Western Armenian is either a language of present-day Turkey (based on its origins) or of Lebanon (based on the current repartition of speakers)
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